Nalle Hukkataival has written a very well argued post, addressing the somewhat chaotic situation that exists in the upper most echelon of the bouldering grading scale. This is certainly a topic that needs to be discussed. Nalle's contribution is a reaction to Daniel Woods' recent FA of Desperanza at Hueco Tanks, giving it 8C, Dave Graham's questioning of this grade on B3 , and Daniel's defending of said grade on 8a . Needless to say, it's not about this particular problem, but that's where it all started. It's neither about siding with any one climber, so please try to keep it all civilized for a change, shall we? I welcome all contributions, but it would be particularly interesting if those of you who actually know what you're talking about could take an active part.